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New grids #172
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This issue has been mentioned on ACCESS Hive Community Forum. There might be relevant details there: https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/cosima-working-group-announce/238/73 |
Hi Andrew, |
Good points to think about! Might be nice to bring this discussion up at a COSIMA weekly meeting? |
IInteresting questions. It is a rare opportunity to change the grid. Hard to know where and how much to invest in grid changes. Probably less modifications is best, considering the effort required to determine results. Item 4 above seems like a no-brainer modification though. |
Raising a new point here: @pwongpan and I realised that large tabular grounded iceberg D15 is not in the 0.25* grid (and presumably the .1 and 1.0 grids either). Even without cavities being implemented, I'd argue that D15 would be better treated as land pixels than open ocean pixels for the following reasons:
Can we consider prescribing this as land pixels for the OM3 grid? Obviously when cavities are implemented, it would make more sense to describe this as a cavity, but until then I think land is better than water. Just a discussion point - there may be ocean things I haven't thought of :) |
Out of interest, are there any grounded icebergs included in the current bathymetry? I think we just use bathymetry from GEBCO that doesn't have any icebergs in it? |
I suspect none. @dpath2o might know more |
Hi @adfraser @adele-morrison @dpath2o I would think it odd from a coupled model perspective to have the icebergs as land points in any new grid. For Dan's project it might be useful but he can put them in for that, but these grids will need to be used more widely. Upto now we havent been using icebergs in the grid, and we just had to redo the Antarctic because minor ice shelves weren't handled well in earlier bathymetry version. We need to improve things for the next iterations in access-om3/cm3 |
Thanks @ofa001 - yeah I realise they will need to be used widely but I think including D15 could be a special case for the "base" grid. Just a thought. |
The difference in area for some of these cells (as described in 126) seem fairly drastic, so this looks worth investigating further. From Bi et al 2013: In panel a), it looks like we would move the poles south-west to maximise the distance from the ocean. I suspect they will need to be 180° in longtitude apart for us not to break something.
In theory, moving this to the longitude to with the smallest length of ocean would reduce the amount of communication between MPI tasks but the effect would very marginal. It would be nice to have Australia in the middle of our plots :)
Its nice to have the equator on the edge of grid cells, just because its easier to understand I think (and maybe easier to analyse?)
Sounds like we have consensus on doing this, but leaving the ice shelves landmasked for now.
Coarsening in the Arctic could help with 1. ? But will refining the grid in the Antarctic force us into a shorter time-step also?
I guess we will keep these refinements for 1 degree (Bi et al 2013):
We should make sure the new grid files are cf-complaint. CMS have a compliance checker which would help: http://climate-cms.wikis.unsw.edu.au/CF_checker |
Hi @anton-seaice In realtion to the Antarctic, the choice of grid there in the BI et al "auscom" grid used in access-om as well was to be "square" so that n/s resolution was close to the e-w resolution as the we went further south, it might look a bit skewed on the plot. I would support additional resolution as its our region of interest, but we still need to keep some resolution in the Arctic (for both ice and ocean processes). But its less of a priority. |
Thanks :) Ill correct my post . |
On further thought on this point, by definition the location of the longitudinal seam is the longitude of one of the tripoles. From the Murray 1995 paper: The curves are constructed on a NH stereographic projection about foci, F1 and F2 , lying on either side of the N Pole (N), which is the origin of the projection (Fig. 9). The foci are situated at latitude phiF (...) and 90° east and west of the symmetry meridian, which is at longitude l0. The focal arc and the symmetry meridian define the x and y axes, respectively. The key point being the symmetry meridian (90° offset in longitude from the tripoles), which is continuous across the orthogonal and stereographic sections of the grid: The definition precludes us from defining the location of the longitudinal seam differently than the tripole, although there may not be a mathematical reason why the longitudinal seam and the tripoles need to be aligned in longitude. |
@adfraser Also just pointed out that moving the tripoles south will force the resolution in the Arctic to be lower, which is probably desirable for us. |
Apologies for the talking to myself: @pwongpan asks if we should consider IBSCO bathymetry in the Southern Ocean. It looks like the GEBCO_2023 has assimilated latest fairly up-to-date IBSCO already. From https://www.gebco.net/data_and_products/gridded_bathymetry_data/gebco_2023/: The SRTM15+ base grid has been augmented with the gridded bathymetric data sets developed by the four Seabed 2030 Regional Centers to produce the GEBCO_2023 Grid. The Regional Centers have compiled gridded bathymetric data sets, largely based on multibeam data, for their areas of responsibility. These regional grids were then provided to the Global Center. ... For the polar regions, complete grids were provided due to the complexities of incorporating data held in polar coordinates. The compilation of the GEBCO_2023 Grid from these regional data grids was carried out at the Global Centre, with the aim of producing a seamless global terrain model. |
As long as the new GEBCO has IBCSO2, not IBCSO1? IBCSO2 was a major update |
Yeah it does: see data_contributors and search Southern Ocean |
That's great then. I consider IBCSO2 the best available for the SO |
Thanks all. I don't know how complicated it is, but it would be great to have a platform/cookbook where we could regenerate the bathymetry based on the new bathymetric observations (by icebreakers, Expendable Bathythermograph etc.) from the grid of interest. |
@pwongpan these tools exist and have been used for past models (ACCESS-OM2, panan): https://github.com/COSIMA/domain-tools |
It is suggested in the ocean grid generator guide when doing this that the South Pole should be offset to maximise the distance from the Ice Shelves (which will lead to less tiny grid cells which could be ocean). The Ross Ice Shelf looks to extent past 85°S, so its probably worth considering. |
Hmm, yes, good point @anton-seaice. That would make analysis a pain doing zonal averaging though!!! |
It could/should be possible to start the 'displaced pole' section at say 78°S, so for most configurations it would all be within the landmask. |
Hudson Bay or Foxe Basin area its in north might have been adjusted as it is close to the tri-pole, but yes we need Red Sea, and Gulf, Black Sea is a tricky one depending on resolution as the link to Med is through a very narrow strait. |
This is slightly worrying non? Like the topo generation should be robust to this and only look at ocean cells ? I had a quick look in gen_topo, but it would take some more time to figure out if it has awareness of land masks. |
@ezhilsabareesh8 I've fixed |
Thanks @aekiss, I will try to do the hand edits at crash locations.
Yes deseas is removing them. Here is the topography generated without deseas, will have a look at land mask difference. |
The current OM2 0.25 deg topo This uses I expect we'll want to retain many of the edits in |
@aekiss are you saying we should dive straight in and deepen Denmark Strait etc now? You don’t think it’s worth having a look first to see if there’s an issue with the transport to see if it’s needed? I guess I’m optimistic some things might be improved with different model physics, and the updated GEBCO product? Perhaps at least we could check if the same edits in topog_edits.txt have also been made in the OM5 topography before diving in? |
It's a bit complicated. The current OM2 0.25 deg topo
So the topography and land mask are modified (and modify each other) at multiple steps, with many of the largest topography changes actually being imposed via the land mask. We'll need to think about which of these changes we want to inherit into OM3. Many of the edits at straits etc are needed to correctly reproduce the depths of unresolved sills and I expect would be a better starting point than 0.25° averages of the new GEBCO. Filling in the ocean for small cells near the tripoles is also likely to be a good idea to get CFL stability with a decent timestep. |
This issue has been mentioned on ACCESS Hive Community Forum. There might be relevant details there: https://forum.access-hive.org.au/t/cosima-twg-meeting-minutes-2024/1734/19 |
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Looks like we'll need to modify |
@aekiss I have updated the However, I am unclear about why the minimum T-cell size is set to 6 km for regions north of 60°N and 11.7 km for regions south of 60°S. In addition, I have regridded the OM2 topography onto the new grid and plotted the mask differences. It appears that additional land has been added near the tripole region, particularly close to Kara Strait, when the T-cell size is limited. I also noticed that the Caspian Sea is not masked, but I believe this will be corrected once deaseas processing is applied. Topography after cutting off T cells of size less than 6 km: Land mask difference compared to OM2: (Blue: Ocean added, Yellow: Land added) |
The SH cutoff is due to Mercator scaling of dyt only being applied between 65S and 65N, so dyt is constant south of 65S. So the 11.7 km SH limit is due to the grid itself, not the topography. |
I think it would be good to have Kara Strait open, as in OM2 - maybe use a cutoff slightly smaller than 6km? |
I agree with @aekiss that keeping Kara Strait open may be a good idea it looked like a lot of additional land had been added to close it off, and we are now on a C-gris so it doesn't need to be as many points wide to have a realistic flow through. |
Thanks, @aekiss and @ofa001 I’ve refined the topography generation workflow and implemented a new sea-removal algorithm compatible with C-grid. I also filtered out T-cells smaller than 6 km and generated topography for two fill fractions: 0.1 and 0.5. Below is the updated workflow:
The additional land that was previously added near the Kara Strait has been corrected in the new workflow. However, changing the fill fraction leads to variations: with a fill fraction of 0.5, the Black Sea is removed; with a fill fraction of 0.1, the Black Sea remains, though additional small cells appear northwest of it compared to the OM2 topography. Land mask difference b/w OM2 and new topo with 0.5 fill fraction (Black contour: Land added, White Contour: Sea added): As we can see Black sea omitted in the new topography. Land mask difference b/w OM2 and new topo with 0.5 fill fraction (Black contour: Land added, White Contour: Sea added): Black sea included. Comparison of OM2, 0.5 fill fraction and 0.1 fill fraction topo at Black sea: Black sea is omitted when the fill fraction is 0.5 and Bosporus strait is open when fill fraction is 0.1 and Black sea is included. Kara Strait: In all three cases, the Kara Strait remains open. However, when the fill fraction is set to 0.1, more tiny cells are added near the coastline of the Kara Sea. Malacca and Sunda Strait: Open in all the three cases Gibraltar Strait: Open in all the three cases. However, it is deeper in the OM2 topography compared to the new topography. Hudsons Bay: In the new topography, the problematic Foxe Basin north of Hudson Bay—where crashes occurred—has been removed. However, the coastlines of Hudson Bay are shallower compared to those in the OM2 topography. Let me know if there are specific basins or straits to focus on. |
this should be removed for C grids (if you use the latest version in the PR it should abort with error)
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Thanks @ezhilsabareesh8 for these plots, I like the 0.1 fill better in many of the straits though sometimes small islands disappear, it also created small coastal indentations, fjord shaped, around some of the Arctic coastlines you showed, which could easily trap ice whilst 0.5 was smoother and didn't show them, so it might be a case of looking closely at all the high latitude coastlines in both of these cases. |
Thanks for the careful documentation. I think it might be safest to use fill fraction of 0.5, as we've done previously, to avoid fiddly little embayments. In this case Black Sea requires a hand-edit to open Bosphorus. Gibraltar Sill probably needs hand-editing to deepen it. Glad that those various straits are now open. Shallower Hudson Bay if probably not a problem but we'll find out. |
Hi @aekiss @ezhilsabareesh8 after being at another meeting was reminded of 2 other straits, Red Sea and Persian Gulf that we often have issues with particularly in coupled models, Can you enhance how they look in the latest topographic C-grid version. |
Thanks @aekiss and @ofa001 , I have updated the workflow to omit @ofa001 The Red sea and Persian Gulf seems to be fine in the new topo. |
Hi @ezhilsabareesh8, I think we still had to artificially widen the Red Sea for ACCESS-CM2-025 version, it may be in the notes, @aekiss will probably know where, its still quite narrow here. For the Persian Gulf is not the width so much but sill depth that we may have changed to increase mixing with the Indian Ocean otherwise they get very saline in coupled runs even at 0.25 resolution, its not clear if extra grid points with C-grid will help! |
@aekiss I made some hand edits in the topography to open the Bosphorus Strait, which preserves the Black Sea from being omitted by the deseas algorithm. I made two adjustments and set the land points to match the nearest depth values.
The updated topography now preserves the Black Sea; however, unlike in OM2, the Sea of Azov remains connected to the Black sea in the new topography. Would it be more appropriate to close the Strait of Kerch to omit the Sea of Azov? |
Thanks @ezhilsabareesh8, keeping the Sea of Azov is probably an improvement |
Hi @ezhilsabareesh8 and @aekiss, I also like having the Sea of Azov in there, I would only remove it if its shallowness introduced a problem in the runs. |
As @ezhilsabareesh8 pointed out, we'll need to fix the runoff #231 before we adjust the topography to minimise SSS restoring in marginal seas. |
Thanks, @aekiss, for documenting our discussion. Here’s a quick update on the new topography: the model with the updated topography with the recent edits and updated workflow has now been running successfully for 15 years without any crashes or truncation errors. However, the salinity restoring results remain very similar to those from the OM3 runs with the previous grid and topography. It might be best to address the runoff issues before making further edits to the topography. SSS restoring (Solid lines: New Topo; Dashed lines: Old Topo) |
Before redoing the topography (#68), we should take the opportunity to check whether the grid can be improved.
e.g. consider
Does anything else spring to mind?
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