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[FR] Remote extruder kinematics #17995

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diglooo opened this issue May 14, 2020 · 9 comments · May be fixed by #27582
Open

[FR] Remote extruder kinematics #17995

diglooo opened this issue May 14, 2020 · 9 comments · May be fixed by #27582
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C: Motion T: Feature Request Features requested by users.

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@diglooo
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diglooo commented May 14, 2020

Description

What if we have the filament drive gear remotely driven by a timing belt, driven from a motor located on the X carriage? This should achieve no-backlash, directly-driven and lightweight extruders.

This "remote extruder" (RE) motor will have to compensate the X motor movement in a differential fashion.
photo_2020-05-14_17-16-54

Feature Workflow

Users who adopt this feature will have to specify the details of the kinematic chain in the config file.

  • Ratio between pulley radius at X motor and RE motor shafts (needed to compute the RE motor shaft motion to achieve zero filament motion)
  • Usual steps/mm for the Extruder motor, which is now "virtual".

I have the skills and commitment to build the hardware, compile and test the software but I have no knowledge of the internal Marlin structure and working principle to autonomously implement this feature.

Cheers by diglo from Italy.

@EvilGremlin
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Ouch... I can feel the pains of poor planner... And hunders, hundreds of hours spent making it work... How do you plan on integrating it with LA and S-Curve?

@diglooo
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diglooo commented May 14, 2020

Shouldn't the RE motor motion just be X+E if the motors are mounted like the attached picture and E-X if the X and RE motor are coaxial and facing each other?
Sorry but I have no clue about the inner workings of Marlin kinematics computations... :(

@EvilGremlin
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EvilGremlin commented May 14, 2020

Without corrections - yes, in theory it's no different from CoreXY. In reality? At high speeds? I suspect extrusion will suffer after 70-80mm/s even without LA and Scurve.
Though your idea doesn't make sense anyway. If you put it onto XY extruder Z bed - it'll just make one axis twice heavier, thus it's a massive downgrade. If you but it on XZ extruder Y bed - bed is still as heavy as motor, thus it's just useless.

@diglooo
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diglooo commented May 14, 2020 via email

@EvilGremlin
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Yep, but it doesn't make bed any lighter, so this is no better than pancake with gearbox or belt

@diglooo
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diglooo commented May 14, 2020

Bed? The aim is to reduce the mass of a X carriage with a direct drive extruder assembly.

@EvilGremlin
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What's the point reducing mass of only one axis? Your speeds and quality only as good as heaviest carriage.

@diglooo
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diglooo commented May 14, 2020

The point is to get at least one axis better.
The bed stays at a constant height while printing; the X carriage is lifting upwards while printing and as a result you end up with a mass of ~200grams being accelerated back and forth at say 2000mm/s^2 at an height of 300mm from the bed surface if you're printing a tall model. The lighter the moving parts, the better... or not?

@EvilGremlin
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Yep, to an extent. Remember that while your light X carriage go up your bed become heavier and heavier... IMO, it's better to build proper rigid and heavy CoreXY and don't waste time on half measures.

@boelle boelle added the T: Feature Request Features requested by users. label Jun 20, 2020
@thisiskeithb thisiskeithb linked a pull request Dec 1, 2024 that will close this issue
@thisiskeithb thisiskeithb linked a pull request Dec 12, 2024 that will close this issue
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4 participants