Why is NTP and lack thereof so important to Tasmota functionality?

[tomose]

PROBLEM DESCRIPTION

Here's my biggest issue with this... nowhere in the documentation is NTP mentioned as being important to basic functionality. No timers or anything else are used when these problems happen. If Tasmota is denied NTP access it throws an absolute fit. And it doesn't make sense. It's not as if it's not able to track the passage of time internally even if the time itself doesn't match with the rest of the world (1970) it can still count when a second has passed.

My personal issues range from intermittent wifi dropouts to delayed response of commands sent over MQTT and HTML. All of these issues are immediately resolved by setting TimeZone and NtpServer1 to a server it can access. No other changes to devices or network and suddenly everything performs as expected with no further wifi drop outs.

Why is the lack of NTP access so detrimental to the functionality of some Tasmota devices? Why does wifi drop out frequently? Why are commands to them delayed? Why do they spam NTP requests (I'm basing this off my poor memory of DNS log activity from them when I first got them, 8.x firmware)?

More and more people are wanting to isolate their IOT networks, the default behavior for devices shouldn't be wifi dropouts and extremely delayed command responses if no NTP server is available. Shouldn't the basic functionality such as issuing a command be as simple as "oh, command to turn on received, perform action"?

REQUESTED INFORMATION

Make sure your have performed every step and checked the applicable boxes before submitting your issue. Thank you!

• Read the Contributing Guide and Policy and the Code of Conduct
• Searched the problem in issues
• Searched the problem in discussions
• Searched the problem in the docs
• Searched the problem in the chat
• Device used (e.g., Sonoff Basic): USW-WF04 wifi outlets
• Tasmota binary firmware version number used: Tasmota 10.1.0
  • Pre-compiled
  • Self-compiled
• Flashing tools used: web ota for the last 2 major versions
• Provide the output of command: Backlog Template; Module; GPIO 255:

  Configuration output here: 17:43:20.870 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/RESULT = {"GPIO1":{"0":"None"},"GPIO2":{"0":"None"},"GPIO4":{"0":"None"},"GPIO16":{"0":"None"}}

• If using rules, provide the output of this command: Backlog Rule1; Rule2; Rule3:

  Rules output here:

• Provide the output of this command: Status 0:

  STATUS 0 output here:
17:46:42.675 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS = {"Status":{"Module":0,"DeviceName":"Tas1","FriendlyName":["Tas1"],"Topic":"tasmota_8487E4","ButtonTopic":"0","Power":1,"PowerOnState":3,"LedState":1,"LedMask":"FFFF","SaveData":1,"SaveState":1,"SwitchTopic":"0","SwitchMode":[0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0],"ButtonRetain":0,"SwitchRetain":0,"SensorRetain":0,"PowerRetain":0,"InfoRetain":0,"StateRetain":0}}
17:46:42.681 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS1 = {"StatusPRM":{"Baudrate":115200,"SerialConfig":"8N1","GroupTopic":"tasmotas","OtaUrl":"http://ota.tasmota.com/tasmota/release/tasmota.bin.gz","RestartReason":"Software/System restart","Uptime":"5T02:15:30","StartupUTC":"2022-01-20T23:31:12","Sleep":50,"CfgHolder":4617,"BootCount":40,"BCResetTime":"2021-06-30T02:46:10","SaveCount":3920,"SaveAddress":"F9000"}}
17:46:42.686 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS2 = {"StatusFWR":{"Version":"10.1.0(tasmota)","BuildDateTime":"2021-12-08T14:47:33","Boot":31,"Core":"2_7_4_9","SDK":"2.2.2-dev(38a443e)","CpuFrequency":80,"Hardware":"ESP8266EX","CR":"347/699"}}
17:46:42.690 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS3 = {"StatusLOG":{"SerialLog":0,"WebLog":2,"MqttLog":0,"SysLog":0,"LogHost":"","LogPort":514,"SSId":["IOT","IOT"],"TelePeriod":300,"Resolution":"558180C0","SetOption":["00008009","2805C80001000600003C5A0A000000000000","00000080","00006000","00004000"]}}
17:46:42.701 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS4 = {"StatusMEM":{"ProgramSize":616,"Free":384,"Heap":22,"ProgramFlashSize":1024,"FlashSize":1024,"FlashChipId":"1440A1","FlashFrequency":40,"FlashMode":3,"Features":["00000809","8FDAC787","04368001","000000CF","010013C0","C000F981","00004004","00001000","00000020"],"Drivers":"1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,16,18,19,20,21,22,24,26,27,29,30,35,37,45","Sensors":"1,2,3,4,5,6"}}
17:46:42.709 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS5 = {"StatusNET":{"Hostname":"0001","IPAddress":"10.0.1.11","Gateway":"10.0.1.1","Subnetmask":"255.255.255.0","DNSServer1":"10.0.0.5","DNSServer2":"0.0.0.0","Mac":"EC:FA:BC:84:87:E4","Webserver":2,"HTTP_API":1,"WifiConfig":4,"WifiPower":17.0}}
17:46:42.714 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS6 = {"StatusMQT":{"MqttHost":"10.0.0.5","MqttPort":1883,"MqttClientMask":"outlet1","MqttClient":"outlet1","MqttUser":"DVES_USER","MqttCount":309,"MAX_PACKET_SIZE":1200,"KEEPALIVE":30,"SOCKET_TIMEOUT":4}}
17:46:42.719 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS7 = {"StatusTIM":{"UTC":"2022-01-26T01:46:42","Local":"2022-01-25T17:46:42","StartDST":"2022-03-27T02:00:00","EndDST":"2022-10-30T03:00:00","Timezone":"-08:00","Sunrise":"23:29","Sunset":"08:35"}}
17:46:42.723 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS9 = {"StatusPTH":{"PowerDelta":[0,0,0],"PowerLow":0,"PowerHigh":0,"VoltageLow":0,"VoltageHigh":0,"CurrentLow":0,"CurrentHigh":0}}
17:46:42.731 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS10 = {"StatusSNS":{"Time":"2022-01-25T17:46:42","ENERGY":{"TotalStartTime":"2021-06-30T02:46:10","Total":9.860,"Yesterday":0.077,"Today":0.009,"Power":15,"ApparentPower":20,"ReactivePower":14,"Factor":0.72,"Voltage":117,"Current":0.174}}}
17:46:42.737 MQT: stat/tasmota_8487E4/STATUS11 = {"StatusSTS":{"Time":"2022-01-25T17:46:42","Uptime":"5T02:15:30","UptimeSec":440130,"Heap":22,"SleepMode":"Dynamic","Sleep":50,"LoadAvg":19,"MqttCount":309,"POWER":"ON","Wifi":{"AP":1,REMOVED,"Channel":11,"Mode":"11n","RSSI":66,"Signal":-67,"LinkCount":10,"Downtime":"0T00:21:05"}}}

• Set weblog to 4 and then, when you experience your issue, provide the output of the Console log:

  Console output here:

TO REPRODUCE

Steps to reproduce the behavior:
Deny access to a NTP servers.

EXPECTED BEHAVIOUR

A clear and concise description of what you expected to happen.

1. It doesn't spam requests. No point in polling more than once every 5 minutes. Regardless of access.
2. Does not have a ton of brief wifi dropouts.
3. Commands issued to the devices are not delayed.

SCREENSHOTS

If applicable, add screenshots to help explain your problem.
Before (no NTP access) = https://ibb.co/YWymVmk
After (available NTP server assigned) = https://ibb.co/0sfwbzK

ADDITIONAL CONTEXT

Add any other context about the problem here.

(Please, remember to close the issue when the problem has been addressed)

[ascillato]

There is a bug in the Arduino core that hungs the device for few seconds if there is no NTP, and the same bug produces a reboot exception if the NTP response is not standard.

[digiblur]

It is pretty simple and even many routers have local NTP servers available to use. If you are blocking internet access on your open source ESP chips then you need to be prepared to deal with the fallout that comes with doing so, such as providing local DNS, NTP, and handling your own OTA upgrades and/or OTA server.

[sfromis]

If you want to "get by" without real time, you can create a boot rule using the Time command to set a fake time, and disable NTP.

[HNJAMeindersma]

Setting up a NTP server is not the (/my) issue here. The issue is that Tasmota requesting external/outside resources (e.g. a NTP server on the WAN) by default. The fact that Tasmota has NTP functionality is not a problem, it's a good thing. Again; the issue is the default configuration of the NTP functionality.

[s-hadinger]

I don't get you. You would request Tasmota to not request NTP by default? This I would generate so many users complaints.

[HNJAMeindersma]

You would request Tasmota to not request NTP by default?

Yes or 2) to set the NTP servers (NtpServer1 NtpServer2 NtpServer3) to the value of the network gateway. Or 3) to let users choose an NTP profile during setup/pairing with the WiFi network.

I think the current default behavior is a spot on the privacy and self-sufficiency reasoning that (I think) brings users to Tasmota.

[sfromis]

Your 2) would be pretty bad for a large number of users. If you instead meant DHCP-announced NTP servers, this was tried a long time ago, removed due to often not really working, and commonly ISP routers are not even trying to this, well or badly.

IMO, the number of users seeing NTP server access as a real-world privacy issue is quite limited. "Cloudless" is an argument for Tasmota, but that does not mean NTP, which is pretty easy to deal with for the small minority of users seeing this as a key step. For me, the reason to set up a local NTP server was about not wanting a lot of Tasmota devices "pestering" public NTP servers hourly. Sort of being a "good netizen".

Not having simple onboarding of new devices include a NTP config would be an unhelpful hurdle for the broader Tasmota audience.

[arendst]

Totally agree. End of discussion.

[Jason2866]

Agree with your first sentence. The requirements to run Tasmota, fully working, are not easy to find (in one place). Since the documentation is Open Source too, you are hereby invited to add this information.
Thank you in advance.

[lalo-uy]

You may put an NTP server in the same host of your automation service, and keep all inside you network. El El vie, 20 set. 2024 a la(s) 10:17, Rick ***@***.***> escribió:

…

NTP is a great functionality to have if you need or want to use something like the (scheduled) timer function. But IMO NTP should not be turned on by default or (if someone has a strong argument for enabling it by default) it should refer to the gateway/router IP by default. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#14604 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACXBW4NNLG6PHGZSG5VYVQLZXQN5TAVCNFSM6AAAAABOR7VFMGVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43URDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHMYTANZQGUZDQNQ> . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[joba-1]

nice to see I‘m not alone with this wish:
Tasmota should work on the principle of least surprise, which for me means adhere to standards (like getting ntp over dhcp or by manual configuration) and not have unneccessary prerequisites like a set time for relative timers.
But hey, dealing with the status quo is easier for me and everyone else it seems than to implement this, so I guess it will stay as it is. Tasmota is great anyways.