AUTO vs. HEAT_COOL #39
Replies: 20 comments 11 replies
-
|
Quote some documentation
|
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
I'm unlikely to have the time / knowledge to help develop, but I can certainly help test - I have a range of units, including one system with 4 heads. I'm keen to see HEAT_COOL functionality working as this (with external temperature sensors) may finally give me a true year round set and forget configuration - I feel like the ability to set a wider 'dead band' than AUTO has merit. Anyway, here's the units I can test on: Indoor <> Outdoor Thanks for looking into unlocking more functionality! |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
So I made this cable last night to sniff. One side to the unit, one to the kumo adapter and the wires to my logic tool. Let's see what I can figure out. It is 30F here right now, so kind of don't want to break it when it is cold...so might wait a couple days for a warm spell...HAHAHA! |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
Just letting people know that I am slowed here - I have not been able to get any of my kumo's back on the my wifi sigh so I am trying here!!!! I am however able to see all the serial traffic as it works to query the split unit! So getting closer. I wrote code to grab the JSON from the kumo while I change settings. |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
Cool!! There is something I'd like to find: |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
so what I did is borrow an older wifi AP from my neighbor and I got the kumo to join that temp SSID...so I found the same one on eBay for 12$ so I can keep testing! I should be able to try again as soon as it arrives. But for the few hours I had his AP I got some logs and unfortunately found some bugs in my logging...so bear with me here! I am trying! I hit the kumo every 1 second to get the JSON and log it and then the output from the logic analyzer is also time stamped, so I have to then combine them. I found a bug in my JSON "getting" but he wanted his AP back because it is his only internet HAHAHA! I also have the official remote temp/humid sensors! So I will join those to the kumo and we can see what it says... |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
OK so I finally got a unit on WiFi last night! What a pain in the *** so hope to have some dump of data ASAP! |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
digital.csv I can tell you 12:00:30 auto mode off in settings 12:01:17 auto mode on in settings 12:02:15 thermal fan extra low in heat 12:02:53 stop in cool and heat 12:03:20 mode changed to fan only, then high fan, then, vent, swing In standby for a while Then into heat, but in stand by 12:06:22 hit refresh settings on kumo 12:07 hit heat to 75F, fan very high, vent swing I have no idea how to sync this all, except to hit the device every second to get the json and then maybe we can connect the settings on JSON to what the hex codes are? I need ideas :) |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
oops that is useless, let me see how I can make it into more useful format but I am making progress! |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
kumo-test-1.csv |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
ok so those were the settings in HA using the kumo cloud integration, and these are the logic traces and json from the adapter. |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
I'm going to try to see if I can find patterns to automate some extraction and connect some dots, but please anyone...have a look. Let me know thoughts/etc I am just stabbing in the dark here... |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
name type start_time duration data error the unit says back FC 62 01 30 10 04 00 00 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 ... no idea what this means! name type start_time duration data error |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
Look at these new(?) types I was changing the setting of what the fan should so in thermal shut off. name type hex @echavet what have you been pondering :) that I an record ? this device has an external wireless temp / rh sensor, I know you asked about that. This entire time it has been reporting around Does that help? Here is a TON name type hex |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
In HA heat / cool mode 60°F and 80°F auto fan and auto swing name type hex |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
dry mode
name type hex |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
https://github.com/echavet/MitsubishiCN105ESPHome/wiki/Dictionary-of-Messages-on-CN105-Serial Working on making the dictionary! |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
Hey! |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
@disruptivepatternmaterial have you seen this work? https://github.com/m000c400/Mitsubishi-CN105-Protocol-Decode |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
yeah...so Mitsubishi uses this exact protocol all over the place. That work seems to be for some kind of hot water heater or hydronic system and doesnt match up to what these splits send. I have read spec's for other cn105's in this space...it seems to be their standard MO. I'm stumped as to what the 3+ dozen flags do and it could very well be they are nothing useful... |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
OK have a bit more time here :) so I am pondering where to go next. I am not sure the other settings are all that useful, but are kind of curious. I started down this path because I wanted to see if there is a way to change the span of the AUTO mode (which is 2C according to the manual) and that is really narrow. I really want a mode like the way the kumo has: I can set 55F as a low and 75F as a high and keep the house from getting too hot or cold when I travel - especially during the spring / fall when we have large swing in outside temp (it was 70F today and now it is 43F!). So I can do 2 things: 1 - put my setup on my other head unit with the iSee and get that info...because it might be cool to see if we could emulate that with some presence sensor. this seems interesting because it does iSee without a kumo adapter. but 2 - the heat/cool mode (not auto) seems to only work with the kumo adapter. I cannot get any of my units to go into heat/cool using the remote. anyone see this in their setup? because this makes me think that the heat/cool is implemented in the kumo adapter. It should be easy enough to get the right UX in HA, then store 2 values (high/low) and do some simple math with a delta of 2C and then have the code on the ESP switch the mode of the unit. Perhaps we can hardcode in a way to prevent this from being too narrow...and then people can change that as they wish. So unless anyone has any other cool ideas :) I think this is where I am going next.... |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
A problem I've had with overriding the native setpoint control using a HA automation is that it might turn off heating before it ever manages to defrost - which leads to the outdoor unit filling with ice. This can be solved with some extra logic or by never turning off and adjusting the setpoint to achieve wanted result. |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
Just updating everyone - this is turning out to be a lot of work :P because HA / ESPHome don't seem to automatically understand when to use a single vs. dual set point, and the way this works is that the mode hex is directly linked to the mode. So I have been tracing through and basically building an entire mess to control the mode in the ESP. @MarkoPaasila to the best of my observation these are not related. DEFROST is a non-controllable mode, Id wonder if something is broken with your system. That said, my goal is to make the degree C spread no smaller than 4, but as large as, say, 20. |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
Hey @echavet or @MarkoPaasila do you know of any code that implements the HEAT/COOL that I can learn from as to how it switches from single set point to dual? I am kind of a in a loop that is not getting me anywhere HAHA. I am unsuccessfully able to switch from 1 to 2 in the code...which is the starting point here. Once I have that I can implement a method that takes in the dual and automatically switches from heat to cool with a wiggle of X degrees (and then once I get this working, I can expose that delta as a config).... |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
Hi @disruptivepatternmaterial https://esphome.io/components/climate/thermostat.html I can't remember where, but probably in the esphome repository you should find an implementation of a thermostat. If I had to work on such a project I would implement a PID over a Thermostat component. Here is a known PID: https://github.com/ScratMan/HASmartThermostat |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
No I don’t. I use a somewhat conplicated automation in HA which sets the mode ( heat or cool), setpoint, and fan speed of the esphome/mitsubishi. From the little that I have looked into esphome api climate component, I haven’t seen any dual setpoint stuff. Only single setpoint. It seems like you would need to create a custom component for that too? @echavet I suspect trying PID with a mitsubishi unit would be really hard, since you can’t control the hardware directly. It has a convoluted mind of its own and you need to know the logic in order to fool it to do what you want it to. |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
@MarkoPaasila depending on the system configuration, a PID can provide an output command. Positive if the temperature is lower than the target temperature, negative if the temperature if higher. |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
there is an implementation here (without PID) |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
What I mean is that it turns out to be difficult to control the actual heating / cooling power of the heat pump. Give it a try, then you will see what I mean :-). As an example, the only two methods I have found is to control fan speed or to keep switching on/off. In my cases I need to keep fan speed pretty high - otherwise the air starts to loop, so this method is very limited for me. The other problem is that during heating season I can't keep switching the unit on/off, because, as I already mentioned, the outside unit defrosts first after some 45 minutes, and if it turns off before that, it never actually happens, and the unit gets filled with ice. If I fix it by increasing the PID cycle time to 60 minutes, then it isn't good any more. The third option seems to be to control the unit by adjusting setpoint. That would let me keep the fan speed high and also avoid turning the unit off. However I haven't found a good algorithm for it, since the unit doesn't strictly respect the setpoint. It has some inbuilt logic - maybe at least some pretty big hysteresis. I'm still trying though. Once a good way to fool the heat pump is found, it could then be hidden inside a fake PID climate component to make it user friendly. However, this might actually work well in my/your case, but not for someone else with a different building and different heat pump. What I'm trying to say is that unless a really good method of fooling all heat pumps to produce exactly the wanted result is found, A PID mode won't be any better than simply using AUTO -mode or a HEAT/COOL dual setpoint mode as discussed. |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
|
One thing possibly worth noticing is that at least my indoor units collect condense water for about an hour before it starts to flow out. Therefore if cooling is stopped before that point, all condensed humidity will return back into the room. If one wishes to make the indoor climate more comfortable, cooling/dehumidification must stay on for more than an hour. Of course this will automatically be the case whenever / wherever temperatures stay high for long times, but in cases where a HEAT/COOL functionality is relevant, this point is relevant too :-) |
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
-
I wanted to put a place holder here for this work and discussion.
First lets define AUTO vs HEAT_COOL.
AUTO - this is a setting in the unit where it takes in 1 set point and keeps within 2 degrees C of that set point. The unit will switch from HEAT to COOL as needed. There are also complication around multi-head units and how they react if one wants to cool and one wants to heat. What I have been able to figure out is there are some settings in the units which determine exactly how this work and even ones that allow you to change the 2 degree limit.
HEAT_COOL - this is a HA mode with 2 set points. What is odd is that the Kumo adapter has this feature. But I have yet to be able to figure out how it is implemented. There appears to be no 2 set point mode built into the units. This makes me think that the 2 set point mode is actually controlled by the kumo adapter itself. But I have no proof...just a hunch.
I have a logic analyzer and am working on snooping the bytes to and from the device. I have put a kumo back on one of my units and started to see what I can find. So far I can tell there are a set of other commands we have no implemented, but I have yet to make complete sense of them.
The goals is to do a couple things:
1 - expose the config settings for AUTO - I am a fan of AUTO because the units know how to manage themselves and I live in a part of the world where the diurnal/nocturnal temp variation can be substantial and I want a "set it and forget it" mode.
2 - see if I can find a real HEAT_COOL mode inbuilt to the unit, and if not, implement one in the code to allow HA users to take advantage of this mode, why? Well it makes a lot of sense that you would want to set it to 65F as a heat point and 85F as a cool point while traveling, lets say, and the house should be safe and cozy.
Side note: there is also a rather complex dry mode in the kumo adapter...I suspect it is implemented in the adapter itself. It would also be interesting to expose the RH like we have with temp, since the remote sensor also has RH. Then this can be used to control dry mode better.
I spoke to 2 EE/CE pals of mine last night and they said my testing setup if sound...so now just need some time to poke at it and report what I find!
Beta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
All reactions