Community Council (CC) meeting held @ 15:00 UTC in grincoin#general channel on Keybase. Meeting lasted 44 min.
Notes are truncated, and conversations sorted based on topic and not always chronological. Quotes are edited for brevity and clarity, and not always exact.
- l33d4n
- anynomous
- defistaker
- cekickafa
- ardocrat
- vikvikyvz
- hwgty
- monkey23
- Request for funding May-Aug 2023 @cekickafa is voted and accepted in favor by the community.
- Granting GK access to hub,docs,agenda PR for speed up, work offload and better follow-up to date is agreed.
- CC Fund: expenses, responsibilities, spending guidelines and follow-up processes by @l334dan for Improving governance of funding request and tracking deliverables feedback to be continued on forum.
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Last meeting notes here: https://github.com/grincc/agenda/tree/main/notes
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Current meeting agenda
anynomous : Lets take 1 minute to read the agenda. If anyone wants to add topics to the agenda, you can suggest agenda topics now.
l33d4n : Should I link to my post or is the topic known to everyone?
anynomous : You mean the one one governance? We can add it as a third agenda topic if you want.
ardocrat : I want to ask some devs if they are investigated problem with peers already @phyro @yeastplume its on Grin Rust implementation, I am trying to find a solution for now, cause its important for mobile users when user is restarting his node all the time.
anynomous : What is the problem with peers @ardocrat?
l33d4n :
anynomous : You mean the one one governance?
Yes. or we can just discuss it today after the other topics and I will add it as proposal for the next meeting.
anynomous : Before we start with the agenda points, let me give a few updates on the TO DO's. @satoshocrat has been contacted on KeyBase and on the forum to request a refund.
yeastplume : doesn’t seem like a CC governance meeting topic.
ardocrat :
anynomous : What is the problem with peers @ardocrat?
Sometimes node is just losing peers or trying to get new peers every time after restarting node.. for example if I will restart node 3 times per minute there is a chance I will not find any peers for a long time.
anynomous : Furthermore, @scilio made PR to review the final phase of the CoinSwap implemntation, so that is great news 🚀
🚀 scilio,anonymous, l33d4n, cekickafa, johndavies,ardocrat, defistaker
ardocrat :
yeastplume : doesn’t seem like a CC governance meeting topic.
OK so problem is known, I just want to make sure to keep finding a solution.
anynomous : Maybe post it as an issue on GitHub, my guess is you go on the block list (at least for peers with Grin++), who do not want to connect if you just drop out/restart all the time.
Back to the agenda
https://forum.grin.mw/t/request-for-funding-cobragrin-may-aug-2023/10486
cekickafa : 👋 yes, i want to extend my term with GK role, as solo.
anynomous : I think you previously indicate you can manage as a single groundkeeper. As CC we want to minimize costs, however, we do need to keep our reporting up to date which honestly would not happen without a GK since CC member do not have a fixed time available for Grin. So unless anyone objects, I would vote in favour of continued funding so the CC can keep its administration and reporting in order. Please provide thumbs up down on whether you want to grant @cekickafa funding for the period of May-Aug. If you have objections, raise them now.
👍 anonymous, l33d4n, ardocrat, defistaker, vıkvıkyvz, johndavies
ardocrat :
- anynomous
- hendi
- dtavarez
- Mcmmike
- future3000
- mwgrin_fr
Question: how much CC members we have on meeting today from this list?
anynomous : Since there was wide support to continue funding on the forum, I think I can forward these results to the other CC members to give their yay and officially approve the request. Once enough CC members have given their yay, I will post and update on the forum that the FR has been granted. 🎉 Only me, which supprises me since I had talks with @mo5ito and @mcmmike only hours ago..
cekickafa : Thanks for your support. 💛
anynomous : For our next agenda topic:
2) Update docs/approval scheme. Add GK access to hub, docs, agenda PR for speed up, work offload and better follow-up to date.
I discussed it earlier today with @mcmmike who manages the CC github page, he will add administration access for @cekickafa and we will update the approval scheme to count his approval to merge, making it much easier to reach the threshold for merging.
👍 cekickafa, l33d4n, ardocrat, defistaker,
l33d4n :
anynomous : Lets vote here and now on giving access to @cekickafa for Github. Should we also give @satoshocrat access to the Grin CC Github?
This issue was discussed, voted and approved last year.
anynomous : Yes, but only one man can make the change 😉, now we asked him I think we can move on to the next agenda point,
@l33d4n made this post recently to provide feedback on the governance of funding request and tracking of development. He and others gave useful feedback, so we want to make some changes:| https://forum.grin.mw/t/cc-fund-expenses-responsibilities-spending-guidelines-and-follow-up-processes/10522/67
monkey23 : 👋
ardocrat :
anynomous : I discussed it earlier today with @mcmmike who manages the CC github page, he will add administration access for @cekickafa and we will update the approval scheme to count his approval to merge, making it much easier to reach the threshold for merging.
Does it mean you will make @cekickafa CC member also?
anynomous : Officially no, but we effectively lower the treshold for making commits by allowing him admin rights.
👍 ardocrat
ardocrat :
- anynomous
- hendi
- dtavarez
- Mcmmike
- future3000
- mwgrin_fr
- monkey23
I mean add him to this list at website.
cekickafa : It needs election imo.
👍 ardocrat, anonymous, monkey23
anynomous : In case a CC member would quit, there would probably a new election and @cekickafa could be a candidate like he was in the last election.
👍 ardocrat, vıkvıkyvz
This should decrease cases like what happened with the financing reporting, which became stale since we needed one more approval. Regarding the Governance feedback, do you want to make a summary @l33d4n
Or should I attempt to summarize?
👍 l33d4n
Ok, here goes my attempt, just add if forgot anything 😉
l33d4n : The summary of my proposal: I suggest freezing any future spending from the CC fund until we have clear decisions about who is responsible for what, how spending rules will be enforced, and how decisions will be made for future actions and follow-ups.
anynomous :
Summary on Governance feedback
- Finance reports were not up to date and need fixing. This should be take care of now since @cekickafa will get admin rights to the GitHub page
- Spending guidelines, are they followed? Yes and no. The spending is properly done, but as CC and as community we should do a better job at defining and checking deliverables. I discussed this with @l33d4n and we want to make some changes to the Grin CC description, clarifying which responsibilities council members have (keyholder and preferably active community members), but decision making, checking deliverables and reviewing are a community effort. Clarifying this should avoid differences in expectations.
- In case of recent Funding Requests, like the one from @dtavarez we did not yet check the deliverables, while a new funding request was made. I therefore suggested on the forum to first finish the deliverables before moving to any new funding request.
- After discussing it with @mo5ito and also as proposed by @renzokuken, we will first discuss features on the forum, only if they get enough support from the community propose to move forward with a funding request
- Community mining farm. Update for transparency and clarify who has the responsibility for the farm. -In short, all miners except G1 are now in a professional mining farm where we pay 30% of mined Grin for electricity and housing. A fair and honest deal, in practice this means we pay something like 0.04$ per kWh + free housing.
- We will have to discuss again the funding models, Funding Request versus bounties. Should we put bounties on deliverables and only pay afterwards or is this the path to lose the few developers we have.... That is something we cannot easily discuss here, a lot of previous discussion on the topic needs to be red in order to shape ones opinion.
👍 monkey23, cekickafa, ardocrat, future3000
hwgty : Hi it’s pulseofdrama (also known as bear with jokes) may I’m have some summarize quickly since I’m late?
anynomous : Just read the post above 😉
hwgty : I’m appreciate that’s speed for request😀 I’m wanna add several ideas notes or whatever: can we agreed that’s CC must put his efforts to get exchanges or something like that, even from my side time seems like come.
ardocrat :
hwgty : I wanna add several ideas notes or whatever: can we agreed that’s CC must put his efforts to get exchanges or something like that, even from my side time seems like come.
p2p exchange is needed indeed, also atomic swaps with btc/xmr, bounties can be created if somebody will start to work on this imo :)
👍hwgty
hwgty : Since we end with kukoin(god I’m still hear echo of that shit in g++ channel) we need something in that way
monkey23 :
anynomous : 6) We will have to discuss again the funding models, Funding Request versus bounties. Should we put bounties on deliverables and only pay afterwards or is this the path to lose the few developers we have.... That is something we cannot easily discuss here, a lot of previous discussion on the topic needs to be red in order to shape ones opinion.
6 must be underlined
👍 ardocrat
anynomous : We do have https://bisq.network/ as peer to peer exchange.
👍 ardocrat
monkey23 : It was almost a jungle, there are funds for grin swap, which we never see even a GUI example
hwgty :
ardocrat : p2p exchange is needed indeed, also atomic swaps with btc/xmr, bounties can be created if somebody will start to work on this imo :)
Maybe it’s deal for CC don’t u think so?
anynomous : Mostly lack of people there offering grin, but still some trades: https://bisq.markets/market/grin_btc
hwgty :
anynomous : We do have https://bisq.network/ as peer to peer exchange.
Man it’s dead man walking let’s be honest.
anynomous : So to make this more concrete, do you suggest the bounty (which I think is still open from the Original Council) for atomic swap gets reopened?
👍 hwgty
monkey23 : Which ofc can take time, but keep track of development could be nice
anynomous :
hwgty : Man it’s dead man walking let’s be honest.
Only if we do not use it.... We can make new exchanges, but who says they will not face the same problem in adoption.
hwgty :
anynomous : So to make this more concrete, do you suggest the bounty (which I think is still open from the Original Council) for atomic swap gets reopened?
In short yes
cekickafa : Atomics swap Bounty idea is open, i publish at newsletter.
👍 paraudstra, ardocrat
l33d4n :
anynomous : Summary on Governance feedback
- Finance reports were not up to date and need fixing. This should be take care of now since @cekickafa will get admin rights to the GitHub page
- Spending guidelines, are they followed? Yes and no. The spending is properly done, but as CC and as community we should do a better job at defining and
Can you publish it as reply? I think the forum will be more effective for discussing these suggestions
anynomous : @l33d4n I will do so later.
👍 hgwty, l33d4n
ardocrat :
hwgty : Maybe it’s deal for CC don’t u think so?
I mean anyone can start working on this and be rewarded, CC can help with plan and cooperation, sadly I don't see any CC member active here for last time except @anynomous and @dtavarez. @future3000 came back today at TG after 1 month :)
👍 monkey23
hwgty : Another thing PIBD we will have in June right? Sorry to ask just hard to get info about everything (another point to consider)
Yes @future3000 said he needed to first read all the post before joining any discussion.
cekickafa : @future3000 timing zone mismatch i think.
ardocrat :
hwgty : Another thing PIBD we will have in June right?
@hwgty join dev chat. keybase://chat/grincoin#dev/24195
anynomous :
hwgty : Another thing PIBD we will have in June right?
@yeastplume Is there a timeline for when PIBD will go to main. No pressure, just when it is ready, but the question was asked.
👍 hgwty, ardocrat
hwgty :
ardocrat : I mean anyone can start working on this and be rewarded, CC can help with plan and cooperation, sadly I don't see any CC member active here for last time except @anynomous and @dtavarez.
I’m don’t have this skills for sure, I’m put all points in luck and strength. Wanna try walk this game with “dumb lucky” achievement
cekickafa : June 1 is timeline for PIBD.
https://github.com/yeastplume/grin-rfcs/blob/pibd_deployment/text/0022-pibd-deployment.md
👍 monkey23, phradusta, anoynmous
anynomous : Which means it would be good if it gets implemented in Grin++ ASAP.
I have to leave this discussion. I will read up later. Feel free to continue the discussion here or on the forum.
Thank you all for participating.
hwgty :
anynomous : Which means it would be good if it gets implemented in Grin++ ASAP.
👍I’m will pinch David in case of 😅 but for sure he will take care himself
ardocrat :
hwgty : I’m don’t have this skills for sure, I’m put all points in luck and strength.
all opinions and feedbacks are important, we just need to start somehow, I am busy at gui development full-time for now, can connect to this development at autumn
👍 cekickafa
l33d4n : Any more topics or we can close the meeting?
cekickafa : No more topics at agenda.
hwgty :
ardocrat : all opinions and feedbacks are important, we just need to start somehow, I am busy at gui development full-time for now, can connect to this development at autumn
Opinion: we need this stuff. I’m done.
💯 ardocrat
cekickafa : Ok. Meeting closed. Open discussion is free.
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Feedback on forum for CC Role definition / CC Spending guidelines discussion.
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Give Grincc github access to GK for better management process.
Meeting adjourned.